By Mamuka Mamulashvili is a Georgian soldier and the commander of the Georgian Legion. Influenced by his father, a military general, he began fighting Russians at the age of 14. He participated in several post-Soviet conflicts in the 1990s and 2000s. In 2014, he moved to Ukraine. Since then, he and his fellow legionaries have been fighting alongside the Ukrainian army against the Russian invaders. We managed to speak to him after he left Pokrovsk.
I know you have been fighting against Russia since you were 14. Where does this relentless antagonism towards Russian imperialism come from?
Let’s start from the fact that Georgia was the first country that Russia invaded after the fall of the Soviet Union, and in the 90s, Georgia unfortunately became the first object that Russia tried to use to start rehabilitating the Soviet Union. So, Georgia is a small country with 4 million people, but it is very resistant. I was growing up on a military base with my father, who was a military commander, and also joined the fighting. So that’s how I got to the front lines at the age of 14. I actually started my training while I was defending the sovereignty of Georgia. That time, Georgia was in a much worse situation than Ukraine is now. Beyond a few artillery systems, we had nothing that we could use to face the Russian Federation with. We can say we fought the enemy with our bare hands.
This happened in the Abkhazian War in 1992, right? When Georgia’s Abkhazia region exploded into a 13-month war.
This wasn’t an ethnical conflict, it was caused by and motivated by Russians. They started a conflict inside Georgia to destabilize it. Many Georgians died in this conflict. Many were moved from their homes, and we have more than 300,000 refugees from the Abkhazia region only.
So I was a participant in that war. Later, I was a participant in both Chechen campaigns against Russia. Basically, I fought most of the fights in the post-Soviet area against the Russian Federation and against Russian imperialism.
What is your ideology? As I observe your statements, you simply want to stem the Russian imperialism in the post-Soviet region.
Of course, we are just fighting for democracy. We are fighting for something good, like freedom. We want to be free. Although Georgia is a small country, it’s very difficult to conquer because of the people’s resistance. Georgians have been fighting against Russian imperialism since the ’90s.
Do you believe in God?
Sure thing! I think there are no non-believers in the trenches. You know, people who are fighting are close to God; most of them are believers.
Personally, as a religious person, how do you come to terms with the fact that your job is to take another person’s life?
We’re here to defend people, innocent civilians, not to kill somebody. That is how you distinguish a volunteer and a mercenary. We, the members of the Georgian Legion, are not mercenaries; we are volunteers.
Thank you for clearing this up. How many fighters do you have in the legion right now?
More than 1,000 ethnic Georgians are fighting against the Russians. It means that Georgia sacrifices a lot for the fight for freedom, and countries like Hungary should not be afraid of Russia.
Hungary is part of the European Union and of NATO; it has more possibilities than Georgia.
Georgia National Legion logo Source: Facebook.com
I learned that after the first Chechen War, you went to Paris to study there. What did you learn there?
It was political science and economics. Because it was interesting for me to understand how politics works, what else except shooting can I do to help my own country?
I understood that in the history of diplomacy, there was no signed document that Russia had not ignored. In my opinion, there is no sense in talking to Russia without a weapon in hand.
I know, you paint when you have free time. Does painting help you process the traumas?
In my case, painting helps me release stress; I don’t drink and have never tried any drug in my life. Painting is relaxing or a therapy for me. I always carry my painting tool with me.
As you mentioned, you fought alongside your father, Zurab Mamulashvili, against the Russians. How do you describe him?
First of all, he was the co-founder of the Georgian Legio. He died in Ukraine, just before the full-scale invasion by Russia in 2022. He fought in Ukraine for three years, then he got diabetes.
So he was an ideologist; he was always saying that, for example, during the fight in Abkhazia, we’re not fighting Abkhazians, and we’re not fighting any other nations; we are fighting against the Russians. It was clear to everybody that Georgians were fighting for independence from Russia.
My father was also told that the main evil is Russia, of course, and we have to defeat it, whatever it costs us. So I’m just continuing the legacy of my father and my ancestors, who also were fighters against Russian imperialism.
So, you have this resistance against the Russians in your blood?
Yes, even my great-grandfather had to change his surname because he was a young man who survived the Soviet Occupation in 1921, but most of my family members were killed by the Russians. At that time, he was 18 years old, and he had to hide because the Russians were killing the elite families of Georgia. So that’s why he changed his family name to avoid persecution.
Regarding your background, I learned that you were a prisoner of war during the Abkhazian war. How do you describe your captors, the Russian soldiers?
If you remember, a Chechen politician, Djohar Dudaev, once said that about the Russians: “There are people without a nation, and there are people without any religion and any morality.” That’s how I can describe Russians. I’ve been in Russian captivity for three months. And all that I saw were immoral people killing the war prisoners and torturing them without any trial. And it was a lesson for me.
None of them were acting humane or showing any sympathy towards you or the other captives?
Not them, definitely not Russians. But the Caucasians, who were fighting on the side of Russia, were more supportive of us. We know that by Caucasian traditions, it’s not common to torture or to eat more war prisoners. It’s called crime by them, and it’s not a manly act to do that. But Russians had special scores who were coming to touch our guys and people who were in captivity with me, including my father and me. We were sitting next to each other in jail.
How did you get free?
I was changed after three months by the military war through the prisoner exchange program. But my father stayed in captivity for two and a half years because he was a general. He did not leave until every last Georgian soldier was changed, although he had a chance to leave first.
Zurab and Mamuka Mamulashvili Source: Facebook.com
He was definitely a brave man. Move on to the political situation in your home country, Georgia. What is your opinion on the Georgian Dream Party and the current prime minister?
Ultimately, Russia used huge financial funds to get control over Georgian politics, and they actually placed a pro-Russian oligarch who is a shareholder of Gazprom (Mamulashvili is referring to Bidzina Ivanishvili, the billionaire who won the landmark 2012 elections and retired the next year). They are trying to destabilize Georgia and help Russia. Do politics in a Russian style. We have thousands of political prisoners right now in Georgia, including President Saakashvili and others. We basically have these guys who are trying to make a Belarusian model of politics.
How does the Georgian public opinion feel about the Legion?
We are Georgia! And we are just those regular Georgians who Georgia is. The members of the Legion are a regular part of our society, and these people sent us to support Ukraine.
But officially, you are not recognized as a fighting unit by your country?
Georgia cannot recognize or unrecognize us, as we are volunteers. However, the government is trying to raise criminal cases against us. Because Russia is requesting that. Of course, they are trying to make problems for our guys, and personally, my family members, like my sister, are also under pressure from the pro-Russian government.
What are your thoughts on the two breakaway regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia? Do you think they will rejoin Georgia?
Depends on the will of Georgian society and the Georgian people. They want to diplomatically return those parts of Georgia. So our society will decide how it wants it to be done, and we are just soldiers of our society. We will do whatever the Georgian people tell us to do.
If the Georgian authorities authorize the Legion to do so, will you fight to retake these regions?
If Georgian people tell us to fight to de-occupy our territory, we will.
What about if you were asked to topple the authoritarian and Russian-friendly Georgian government? Will you do it?
First of all, they won’t exist anymore when Russia fialed in Ukraine, and they will probably run to Russia. In my opinion, Georgia does not need any civil war anymore. We’ve been through it for several times. And everything should be sold peacefully. And the government should be changed democratically and without any killing each other and shedding blood. So that’s my opinion, and I think most of Georgia society will agree.
Let’s move to our main topic of the Russo-Ukrainian War. What do you think is the most likely outcome of the conflict?
I don’t think that it will end peacefully because Russia is an invader, Russia is an aggressor, and Russia wants blood. So we will show them their own blood, and we’re showing them 12 years so far. So whatever Russia is offering now to Zelensky is totally unacceptable.
I don’t think that political leadership or the Ukrainian people will agree to that. Unfortunately, the Russians are working together with the political establishment of the United States, and I’m especially meaning President Trump, who is basically supporting what Putin is doing.
That’s totally unacceptable for any free country.
What happens if Trump stops sharing intelligence data and stops the weapon shipments to Ukraine?
Now Trump is threatening that he will stop giving you any information to Ukraine. Having such a partner as Trump is better than not having him at all. We have just posted our declaration about the so-called 28-point peace plan on Facebook.
So what we know is that Ukraine needs support and needs more engagement from European countries. And I hope Hungary will become one of those countries that will be strongly supporting democracy and freedom.
I hope that all the European countries can unite and support Ukraine. Otherwise, they will have to do the same fight with Russia. But they have to sacrifice their own blood this time around.
What are the possibilities that Russia can attack Estonia, Lithuania, or even Poland, any NATO country within its reach?
Sooner or later they may attack Baltic countries. Maybe it will be Poland, maybe it will be Hungary or Slovakia, or any other country that they can reach.
What makes you say that?
Russians have further ambitions to spread this war. As for how long it’s going to be spread, I have no idea. Putin is trying to rehabilitate and rebuild the Soviet Union. But he doesn’t have enough power for that.
So killing civilians is what these “communists” are doing. They are trying to kill just regular people to give them a feeling of—to give them a feeling that they’re not protected. That’s what Putin is doing. About Putin’s further plans, he has the ambition to destabilize Europe, indeed.
With what means can Ukraine win this war? Can the economic sanctions against Russia might help in this?
Sanctions are very important, and Europeans should be very active. I don’t talk about Americans anymore because I see what is happening in the U.S. Trump is ruining all the democratic institutions, and they have their own problems.
Let’s say the U.S will be out of the game for some time while Trump is in power. That’s why I’m talking about European countries now that they should be more active in supporting Ukraine. And we don’t have much time for this.
“I think, whenever Ukraine wins, there will be no Putin regime.”
Have you ever thought about what you would do if this war ended? Will you go home, disband the Legion, and put down your weapon?
When Ukraine de-occupies its territories and Russia falls, we will 100 percent go back home because we are part of Georgia.
Although Im not sure that Ukrainians will stop fighting against Russia. For me, it’s very fictional that Ukraine will stop fighting and will give their territories to Russia. If it happens, it’s not going to be a problem for Ukraine.
It’s going to be a global problem. Because modern societies gave a right to a dictator to invade another country. It’s totally barbaric and unacceptable. I think it’s going to be, first of all, unacceptable for the Europeans because they have a border with Russia, and sooner or later, Russia will reach Europe.
Mamulashvilis’ paintings: https://auctions.venduehuis.com/nl/#/auctions/14ea1c6c-912c-4879-a5db-60a0f4c7c09d?page=4&auction_uuid=14ea1c6c-912c-4879-a5db-60a0f4c7c09d
